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Recent articles by Bill
Bristol support for Julian Assange Jun 18 13 Beating Back the Racist Backlash Jun 16 13 Can the Labour Left Revive? Jun 10 13 Why did we fail to stop the EDL bristol |
protests |
opinion/analysis
 Monday July 16, 2012 13:37 by Bill william.parsons at gmail dot com
 The EDL came to Bristol this weekend and despite much bravado and keyboard bravery the reality is they were able to march through the town down the roads they chose pretty much without hindrence. Why did we fail to stop them ? Some reports talk of "2000 protestors on the streets" which is of course rubbish. less than a 1000 Bristol peeps thought it worthwhile to try and stop a Nazi organisation walking their streets, why the apathy, why the indiference ? Is it because Bristolians support the EDL ? - No of course not, the reality is that like in most of the country the EDL is ignored and ridiculed however regretfully so is the political Left and the Anarchist movement, our appeals are largely ignored in the same way that the EDL is ignored. Are we in danger of being two fleas fighting over who owns the dog ? Where do we go from here ?
There will be a meeting at the Quaker House in Wilson St on Saturday evening to discuss lessons learnt and to plan for the future - 7pm all welcome. |
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Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39The Left have simply failed to offer the population that they see as viable or attractive hence very limited support for actions such as this. When trying to drum support I received comments such as,
"two sides of the same coin mate"and "EDL and Commies, who cares".
Until we recognise that the vast majority of the population see the radical part of the spectrum and the Far Right more or less the same thing we will not make progress. The lack of numbers to oppose the EDL shows this all too well.
The EDL travelled for hundreds of miles away, to sit in a carpark in the middle of nowhere, then march over a bridge. Then they went home.
None of the Bristol public even saw them.
Their 'keyboard warriors' had a long list of 'legitimate targets' that their 'elite forces' were going to hit, on the Friday and Saturday, and they were stopped from doing any of them.
Overall, a PR disaster for the EDL - seig-heiling, calling protestors 'arse bandits' , beating up 60 year old women and plenty of YouTube footage of them showing that they are what they are - a right wing street-fighting fad full of has-beens that is fading out of sight.
They came to Bristol for some kind of 'win' to kick start the movement again and didn't get it. Even their own members are saying it was a failure and they won't be trying it again.
The march wasn't massive but it was big enough to make the point (five to one ratio), especially as most Bristol 'community leaders' made sure people were told not to go (Muslim 'community leaders' opening dialogue with the EDL? Have these people never read a history book? Disgusting)
The only downside is the injuries and arrests from trying to oppose the police forcing the EDL march through St Mary Redcliff. But, still, it was good to make a public demonstration of resistance, however much the odds were stacked against the protesters.
So, overall, not the 'Graveyard of the EDL' we were hoping for, but still a defeat for the forces of Fascism.
Bill - I really do suspect your motives putting this up, and i'll be interested to see if the Quakers meeting takes place.
One final thing - good to see the Evening Pest revert back to true colours, I was starting to think the old 'Devils Advocate' was not as nasty as it was. Then I read their "the real enemy is anarchism" editorial today and was reminded why everyone thinks they are f*cking vermin.
'The EDL came to Bristol this weekend and despite much bravado and keyboard bravery the reality is they were able to march through the town down the roads they chose pretty much without hindrence.'
Are you really that divorced from reality or is this a desperate a plug for your event to try and stir up controversy and have more than 2 people turn up?
There was a fairly large anit-fascist turnout on Saturday - well over a thousand with small groups all over the centre all day, but by and large they didn't get near the edl because the police spent £500,000 protecting 250 fascists. They cordoned off the edl march route and had the numbers, horses, dogs and vans to ensure that they weren't massively outnumbered and outflanked. The fascists didn't go where they wanted, they were told exactly where and when they were allowed to do anything by the police, whereas the antis and pride filled the rest of the city. End of story.
Suppose that I do recognise that most people see far right and left as two sides of the same coin - what then? How will this translate into us making the political gains we need to make?
Also, i disagree with that analysis. In my experience, most people are fairly friendly to our broad aims, but see it as totally unrealistic and utopian. What people need convincing of is that our ideas can translate into a coherant reality. Or course, the newspaper comment sections are filled with 'both as bad as eachother crap', but they're populated almost entirley by unrepresentative knobs who want to air their ill-informed indignation without actually having to research or have any accountability over the 'views' they publish.
In response to the article, I have mixed feelings in writing it off as a failure.
As an out-of-towner, I initially felt that there was a lack of organisation or a 'plan' that prevented us from taking as much action as we could have. That being said, after reflecting on the day, there were quite a few militant actions against the EDL as well as us heavily outnumbering them. In their tiny brains, turf war is important - they wanted to 'take liberties' in a city which they see as being populated by lefties and 'muzzies'. They failed to do so. At no point did we run from them, and on a few occasions, they ran from us. In their matcho minds, saturday would have been demoralising on many levels. I did feel that the scrap around redcliffe at the end of the day was a decent action and it was a shame we couldn't have concentrated our full numbers there. Overall, it felt like a victory, but not a crushing victory.
Would be interesting to hear local anti-fascists reactions to the day, and about the organising process, both with WaB and AFN.
As a side note, i've heard alot of people accusing the SWP of selling out WaB to move to castle park. While i'm always up for a spot of trot-bashing, this rumour appears to be false, especially bearing in mind that SWP high-ranker Martin Smith was nicked trying to prevent the demo moving to castle park.
Sorry but when I read comments like,
"The EDL travelled for hundreds of miles away, to sit in a carpark in the middle of nowhere, then march over a bridge. Then they went home. None of the Bristol public even saw them. "
it reminds me why I get so frustrated with Anarchist political movements sometimes. The EDL did not "sit in a car park" they marched through the centre of Bristol in full view of thousands of people and trying to pretend otherwise is counter productive and silly. The meeting is designed to face facts and build a response to similar marches not blow smoke up each others arses about how well we all did - we didn't.
Come to the meeting bring ideas but don;t bring lies.
Maybe I'm being logical as opposed to radical but surely the fact that the public at large ignored the whole event has to be a good thing?
The EDL got little publicity from their "march" and, if people are prepared to be honest, had it not been for the anti EDL noises made in the run up the chances are there would have been little media coverage either.
The EDL staged this event in order to spread their beliefs & get as much press as possible, their members turned up hoping for a fight, imagine their disapointment if nobody took any notice of them whatsoever, mass street brawls and riots is publicity for them, as the saying goes "any publicity is good publicity" if the "anti" movement had managed to get to them and a have a bloody good scrap you can bet they'd have wanted a return match at some point in the future.
Whilst the AF movement in no way lived up to their own spin by "forcing them off the streets" I would suggest that this was the best possible outcome as the whole day was a total waste of time and effort for them.
Good one to everybody that showed up to thwart the EDL from taking our streets....
We maintain the initiative in UK,, There's NOwhere that they can mobilise larger numbers..
Having said that we must NEVER be complacent, never allow the vermin to gain the slightest foothold in our communities... If the danger needs spelling out, look toward Greece, where the fascists have increasing representation in parliament & the police.... Here the sympathy towards them is evdent to anybody who reads the post or witnessed the thuggery of the cops in Radcliffe, this we have to continue to expose, fight against !! No Pasaran never....
When the extreme Left and the extreme Right expend such vast resources of time and energy kicking the shit out of each other, there is one group that has a little chuckle and laughs all the way to the bank. That group is the elite, the 1%, the New World Order etc. The irony that is not lost on the elite is that both the extreme left (anarchists etc) and the extreme right (EDL etc) absolutely hate the present system and elite power structure but will spend all their time attacking each other rather than the elite (who they both hate). ha ha ha you stupid bunch of chavs and right on idiots. You have been divided and ruled by your own stupidity .... now lets get back to manipulating liebor and the media and everything and leave the stupid idiots on the left and the right to have a pointless scrap in Bristol. At least they are not attacking the elite, thank God! Carry On.
'The EDL did not "sit in a car park" they marched through the centre of Bristol in full view of thousands of people and trying to pretend otherwise is counter productive and silly'
Errr... No. They sat in a carpark cordoned off from the public for an hour or so, then were marched by the police into a totally locked down and public-free Queens Square and were then escorted by their protective bubble back to Temple Meads.
The area they had their rally in was closed to the public. How exactly do you think thousands of people saw them.
I call edl troll posting...
I thought it was an ok turnout, considering. Bristol is basically a small-c conservative city - you've got a small-ish area in the middle with some racial and cultural diversity and some political radicalism (Easton, St Pauls, Montpelier, St Werburghs etc), then a great big hinterland of suburban normality of various shades of wealth or otherwise, from Filton to Staple Hill, from Hengrove to Lawrence Weston. Away from the hotbeds of radicalism, I think there's probably a fair amount of sympathy for the surface politics of the EDL - the anti-Islamic sentiment and the general Daily Mail little England small-town bigot vibe probably chimes with a lot of people, even though many wouldn't want to admit it in public. And I think a lot more people simply don't care - both EDL and anti-fascists are just not relevant to their lives.
And to the poster earlier on who was disgusted by Muslim 'Community Leaders', surely you can see the issues with a mass Muslim turn-out against the EDL? What would the Sun and the Evening Post do with a few pictures of some young Muslim hotheads throwing stones with scarves round their faces? And beyond that, there are substantial sections of the Muslim community in Bristol, in particular the Somalis, who have recently arrived from a genuine warzone and for whom a couple of hundred aging skins marching a few miles away are probably not much of a priority.
You said we wouldnt march. We did..You said we wouldnt make the square...We did.... We wouldnt get out...No we didnt. Like some of you i live in Bristol and iwill come back again with another Demo Bigger and stronger. People were scared to come. Why ? Because of some sad threats made by the likes of Indymedia. We wont cower behind the police. Next time the police and yourselfs will not know were coming but we are.....SOON...NSE.
"Are we in danger of being two fleas fighting over who owns the dog ?"
It's been that way for a good few decades now.
It's just the far left and far right are in perpetual denial, with the occasional glimmer which views the possibility of marginalisation as a possibilty, when it's already an entrenched reality.
Unless the left evolves, it's better you both remain as marginal as each other.
The number of posters who are using this thread to try to turn an anti-fascist victory into a depressing story is quite heartening. Must try harder trolls!
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, you're funny... tell us another!
We only "failed" insamuch as we couldn't stop a thousand riot police. It would have taken a massive riot to do that, and I for one wasn't up for it, and we didn't have the numbers anyway. We still put up a pretty good fight and the Nazis are on record in their house organ (also known as the Evening Post) as saying that they won't be back in a hurry. Well done Bristol!
BUT - there is a but. What I want to know is who were those idiots setting fire to bins and blocking the fascists from leaving? Were they the same brave revolutionaries who set fire to bins round the back of a bank somewhere with love and peanuts and in solidarity with comrades in Greece or something?
Their self-indulgent, stupid behaviour really helped discredit the anti-fascists, loads of people who are not political mentioned it to me, including my local grocer (who is Asian). Can we have a bit of discipline in future please and less moronic cop-baiting? It's elitist plonkers like that who put ordinary people off from going to demos with their unilateral violent action. And I'm not even a pacifist, so there.
"Muslim 'community leaders' opening dialogue with the EDL? Have these people never read a history book? Disgusting"
Actually mate when you and your community are accused daily of being disgusting non-whites trying to take down the country from within, when in fact you're by and large a peace-loving and easy-going bunch, it makes every bit of sense to offer to chat. The biggest favour an asian community could do for the EDL would be to beat the crap out of them. Their numbers would go through the roof overnight. Most people still understand that asians are not scum. That will change the moment communities organise to fight back. Understand the bind we're in - if a bunch of white antifa fight with EDL the papers can't make racist headlines. If a bunch of asians fight, snap snap bingo foreign scum. Case in point look at the best rated comments on the daily mail's article about the tower hamlets bus trashing - the article isn't even too bad but the comments are still all a racist attack on white people, violent foreign louts, benefit scroungers, who have the edl ever hurt, uk has lost its culture and sovereignty, i didn't support edl before but i do now ...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2033860/EDL-bus....html
Remember white people can choose whether or not to be in the EDL firing line - muslim communities can not. If the EDL had reached an asian community they could've ploughed into everyone - old people and kids included. It's so disgusting to try to avoid that isn't it. Not everyone is antifa and spoiling for a rumble. Well done you know you get an A* in radical history. Some people just want to get on with their lives. Full respect and gratitude to people who came out to defend communities, but some people get so caught up in it, they forget what they're fighting for.
Also it might surprise you to learn that occasionally muslims have class analysis too .. more than most anarchists I've met. It's no secret that the white working class is being villified at every turn these days. I'm fed up with anarchists missing the point about the EDL - the vast majority are angry white working class taking action - which I applaud as should any anarchist - but in completely the wrong direction - which I obviously don't applaud. Are they nazis? With very few exceptions, clearly not. As someone else on here pointed out all this muslim/edl/antifa free-for-all is all very handy distraction for cameron and co. Yes offering to chat with tommy robinson is never gonna get the march called off, but it might help some street level edl to see that we're not the ones they should be chucking bricks at.
By all means fight racism and racists. But just because you put yourself in the firing line, don't go crowing at the actions of people who have no choice but to be in the firing line.
In general your post reads like typical trot propaganda. We won 100% again did we? Like we always do yeah? I've read plenty of your posts on here, you don't usually come across so UAF.
No matter anyway, no doubt I'll just be dismissed as an EDL troll because I don't spout insurrectionist bullshit.
don't want to get into a row mate but i don't agree.
The Daily Mail might not like Asians fighting fascists and racists, but the rest of the country does. Outside of Daily Mail land the Asian youth fighting back at Tower Hamlets was seen as "good on them", not "shame on them". The Evening Post would have made a lot out of Muslims being involved in trouble, but then the evidence would have been there for anyone to see, that they were just one community amongst several that opposed the fascists. And, as it has shown, the Evening Post will make up the story whatever happens, as will the Mail and the Sun.
How has not opposing the EDL, how has opening negotiations with confirmed fascists that want to wipe you out, made your community safer? I can't see it.
I'll ignore all your other insults as you're obviously fired up, but yes, thanks for the 'A* in radical history', as someone with Jewish ancestors I take that as a compliment, especially when we're talking about learning the lessons of resisting fascism.
""Are we in danger of being two fleas fighting over who owns the dog ?"
We regretfully are already there. The Left is marginalised and irrelevant to the overwhelming majority of the UK and as for Anarchism, well forget it we are probably weaker today than we have ever been. The only good news is that the Right is in exactly the same position, largely ignored and ridiculed.
Before the EDL came to town I spoke with a friend and said my biggest fear was that the police would not keep the two sides apart because we could face the very real embarrassment of the two sides simply standing face to face and not knowing what to do. Read the online reports from both sides they are almost identical, here are some examples, tell me which side is talking,
"without the police protecting them we would have done them all"
"they lost and they know it"
"they had the police protecting them, we had none"
"had fun battering a few coppers"
Not sure where you are coming from here. First a few facts
We won
The EDL lost
The left is more relevant today than it has ever been
Anarchism is growing massively
The revolution is coming
I fully expect to see the UK adopt an Anarchist society within the next ten years because the people are now beginning to understand how capitalist theory has failed them and what their alternatives are.
The reason more people didn't turn up for either side is simple.
If people turn up for either side they get counted as being supporters of the far-left and far-right by the far-left and far-right.
Fleas fighting over a dog which would prefer to scratch you both of its back.
"The revolution is coming - I fully expect to see the UK adopt an Anarchist society within the next ten years"
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Must stop now as have wet myself laughing.
The EDL had their shit ruined. Crap turnout, never got near the public (and when they did they still managed to get arrested), counter-demonstrators outnumbered them at least 2 to 1, while the rest of Bristol ignored them. How in the fuck is that an EDL victory?
Firstly allow mw to introduce myself-
Quoted from JJJ
"a great big hinterland of suburban normality of various shades of wealth or otherwise, from Filton to Staple Hill, from Hengrove to Lawrence Weston. Away from the hotbeds of radicalism, I think there's probably a fair amount of sympathy for the surface politics of the EDL - the anti-Islamic sentiment and the general Daily Mail little England small-town bigot vibe probably chimes with a lot of people, even though many wouldn't want to admit it in public. And I think a lot more people simply don't care - both EDL and anti-fascists are just not relevant to their lives."
That's pretty much me although it's fair to say that politically I sway towards you guys more than the EDL
I was around the Redcliffe area on saturday & will tell you what I, and probably most people like me, saw.
One crowd of stereotypical shaven headed, tatooed, chavvy football louts trying to make a point that I have no interest in listening to largely due to the fact that they are shaven headed tatooed chavvy football louts.
I also saw an equally stereotypical crowd of combat trouser & knitted jumper wearing yobs trying to make their point which again I have no interest in listening to again because I, and millions like me, can't take you seriously when you look like standard issue tree hugging rent a mob protesters who when interviewed try to appear intellectual but end up sounding like Reg from the Life of Brian.
However there is a BIG difference between you and the EDL, that being that IF the EDL got their way (I sincerely hope that they don't) it would have little or no effect on my way of life, I could still live in my 3 bed semi, own two cars and earn £50k a year (joint income) on which I will happily pay tax to support those less fortunate than myself. On the other hand if you so called Anarchists get your way (again I sincerely hope you don't) my way of life will certainly change for, what is to me, the worse.
You'll never get mainstream support until you stop looking and sounding like bad jokes, sorry guys the revolution aint happening yet.
Sorry for being so blunt but that's how you're percieved by the majority
"The EDL had their shit ruined"
Well since they sought two things, march through Bristol and confront us; in their world they got what they wanted.
"Crap turnout,"
They never get more that a 100 or so and that's what they got this time
"never got near the public"
They marched through the town centre so yes they did
"counter-demonstrators outnumbered them at least 2 to 1"
Errr no they didn't, there was about 70 odd of them and about the same number of us.
"while the rest of Bristol ignored them"
Bristol ignored both us and them.
"How in the fuck is that an EDL victory?"
It's not, there were no victories here for either side. The more I sit back and analyse the weekend and read some of the comments above I realise the time I have wasted with Antifa work. The EDL are no threat to anyone and without us confronting them I doubt they would do much more than getting drunk, waving flags and passing out.
There is NO Far Right threat to the UK.
The UK lets face it is a political wasteland right now. Ever since Thatcher the population has made its political choices between three parties whose policies are all but identical. Labour under Blair moved to the centre from the Left, the Tories under Cameron are in almost the same place. They both did it to make their parties electable.
The radical Left is not viewed as an alternative but fortunately nor is the Far Right.
"The reason more people didn't turn up for either side is simple.
If people turn up for either side they get counted as being supporters of the far-left and far-right by the far-left and far-right."
This is a very good point. I am a tory, and whilst I eventually did participate in the anti-EDL protest - because I fear and disdain fascism - I would greatly prefer not to be coopted by the far-left. And I can well imagine that a great many people who share my political convictions will have been deterred from joining the anti-EDL protest for this very reason.
has it occurred to you that people on protests are considered far-left or far right because all the bloody political parties are practically the same? I'm no anarcho, but I'm way more left than the libdems seem to be, and probably ever will be.
Speaking as somebody who is pretty central on the left-right political axis (vaguely left leaning I guess), from my point of view the extreme left and the extreme right are both largely ignored by the wider public. Which is fine by me, neither extreme appeals to me.
It is interesting how similair reports are from both sides of this recent event though. Both groups accuse the police of protecting the other. Both sides have had debates about who "won".
But the majority of the public are frankly bewildered by the entire thing.
The majority of the public are frankly bewildered by most things, including "how to work a computer", "how to dial a phone number" and "who to blame when your benefits get cut" (Hint: Not poverty-stricken immigrants).
It's sad, but most people are so brainwashed by the system they can barely see straight. I don't know what the answer is, probably more outreach work and education, but you'll have to learn how to use VERY large and friendly fonts, and lots of pictures (functional illiteracy is a huge problem) and speak in words of one syllable or less, as the majority of the Great British Public are, to put it mildly, as thick as two short planks. They'd have to be to fall for this government's bullshit.
There does seem to be an ideal held by many proponents of far left (and far right) politics that the general public are brainwashed nincompoops incapable of making decisions for themselves.
This is frankly wrong. Just because somebody doesn't agree with anarchism (for example) doesn't mean they're incapable of coherent thought. A minority of far-left advocates have a superiority complex where anyone who disagrees with their viewpoints is blindly swallowing the populist media. Their solution to this isn't to engage people and discuss the merits of their ethos, but to try and make them blindly swallow their propoganda instead.
Touchè - good point well made. I speak from frustration, not hate. The reason I don't join the enemy is that I don't believe in Social Darwinism - people may have weaknesses but it does not follow that the strong should predate upon the weak, instead the strong should support the weak. Pretending that everyone is equally strong is not a good way forwards.
Unfortunately as I say I am very frustrated and isolated where I am. I do think that reaching out to people on their own terms is important, and that political issues need to be simplified and made more accessible.
For instance why do the anti-EDL flyers all read like Das Kapital? Crowded text, user-unfriendly rants about the system, all great stuff that we can all get behind, sure - but a lot of people simply won't understand it, at least not when you put it in those terms - and especially not when the illiteracy rate is 22%.
Sorry to blather on just trying to make a more positive contribution than "Bah humbug! Everyone is thick except me!"
I agree with those posters who are saying the difficult thing, that the majority of the population is simply not educated enough to understand radical politics or why they keep making the wrong choices with regard to General Elections.
Look at Cuba, a country that works precisely because an educated minority is able to make the important decisions for the greater good.
Most people are too stupid to understand what is best for them.
Ok - those of you who have wondered why not that many people get involved in radical politics in this country, the answer is right there in the comment by Luca above...
Luca - you need to get out more and more importantly read more. You could start with Dirty Havana Trilogy by Pedro Juan Gutierrez.
"You could start with Dirty Havana Trilogy by Pedro Juan Gutierrez."
I don't read CIA funded propaganda.
During the month of Ramadan, Muslims are expected to abstain from food, drink, smoking and sex to focus on spirituality, good deeds and charity.
I cannot imagine what the EDL will be doing during the month of Ramadan... thinking about good deeds, charity or spirituality?... I doubt that!
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/07/201272....html
Dude... There's a whole, complicated, beautiful world out there...
There seems to be this idea that far right and far left groups are at two poles of a spectrum but is this the case ?
For instance take a look at The Immortals group in Germany. They are clearly a far right organisation but also anti globalisation, anti capitalist, anti democratic etc. They organise short well ordered Flash mobs, utilise social media and actively target recruitment from the supposed higher classes of society, who may be useful for them in the future :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bMw_2nMzqE
Personally feel that these type of organisations are a lot more of a threat than organisations like the EDL, who are basically a one trick pony around supposed Islamification. However that does not mean that they should be ignored and subsequently opposed.
There is an misconception that the political right and left equate to capitalism / anti-capitalism and facism/anti-facism.
This is a simplification. Whilst many groups do fit this reduction, it's not as clear cut. There have been numerous left wing facists over time; several Communist states. There is such a thing as anarcho-capitalism. It's a view clearly rejected by the more prevelant anarchists, but it does exist.
If you ignore the BNP's abhorrent racism, a lot of their politics would place them further to the left than the right (of course, most of their politics are half baked, but still).
My point is left and right, whilst good blanket terms, often break down when you look at the finer detail.
"Look at Cuba, a country that works precisely because an educated minority is able to make the important decisions for the greater good."
Oh yeah? A country with an official murder rate of 4 times the UK? (note the use of the word official since much crime is unreported). And indeed a country whose economic system is in such a mess that even Fidel Castro has stated it no longer works and that other countries should not adopt it.
"Most people are too stupid to understand what is best for them."
You sanctimonious prat. Most people simply want to work for a living (do you Luca?) and ensure that themselves and their loved ones are healthy, educated, and safe from harm. They are generally not interested in some idealised political system.